1. RyanArch

    RyanArch New Member

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    Over the weekend while bench testing the X650 V8 I noticed one of my motors was running way hot...where the other seven were not even a bit warm. Noticed the top motor above the hot one has the motor can completely detached (glad I found this out before a test flight). After taking the top motor apart, I find the e-clip that holds everything together missing...you can only guess now why the lower motor is running hot. Take the bottom motor apart to find the clip stuck to the magnet side and a significant rub scar along the motor. Everything was put back together and tested again...everything seemed okay for the moment without props.

    As the craft in the air, the lower right does not spool up like the others. Eventually it kicks in but cuts out intermittently at around 25% throttle while the others are still humming along. I was able to do some test flights but the craft would dip and favor the rear right side. Obviously the motor has some damage...enough to where I won't fly with it.

    Getting a replacement motor via CNC Helicopter (Who I might add promptly took care of this...KUDOS!) but as the title suggests...I'm looking for opinions on after market replacement motors for the future? Which ones work and fit the stock mounts on the X650?
     
  2. jffry7

    jffry7 aka TruckBasher

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    I agree CNC Heli quite good support. I am not sure about the replacement motor tho but they look to work well with the camera mount/GoPro combo and 400gram++ batt. Like you my motors are getting hot but probably due to the 11x5 prop and 2.56Kg AUW. I am considering to put AXI 2217/22 SS on it but I think my V8 is getting out of budget specially it will need new ESC as well. I will park on your thread in hope that someone might suggest alternative motors without burning my pocket
     
  3. DennyR

    DennyR New Member

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    Ryan
    I have been toying with the idea of getting a V8 for a spare machine that travels. I keep reading all kinds of problems with the electronics, is that generally what is wrong or does it work ok in the right hands would you say? The Tiger motors would be my first choice for any replacement motors. Often rebadged.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2011
  4. RyanArch

    RyanArch New Member

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    Fellows...Jeff over at CNC recommended these motors as "direct fit" replacements for the stock XA motors http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet/the-1834/QD1100B-upgrade-motor-for/Detail

    I have not purchased these ($32 each) but in the event I don't have great success with the XA's I'll give them a try.

    Denny...I've gotten about 4 test flights in with my V8 so far, awaiting the replacement motor. So far it has flown well. I've seen some of the issues others have seen such as: random throttle increase, slight yaw drift (but is was tested in 15mph wind conditions). I'd need to get more time in on calmer days to see if the wind had much to do with it. Right now my configuration is with all stock parts...I have Graupner props on the way. Flying with an Aurora 9, with a 4S 5300mah lipo pack (GensAce). Still have some tweaking to do yet. Overall it's gone as expected, I went with the XA x650 V8 as an affordable entry for getting into AP. I considered the Gaui 330xs as well at one time but felt I had better payload options with XA. The heaviest camera I'll put on this will be the Canon G12.
     
  5. RyanArch

    RyanArch New Member

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    Denny...also to answer your question about "does it work in the right hands?" A friend of mine who's a 5-6 year heli guy took the sticks...flipped it into gyro mode and took off doing figure 8's and pushing it a little bit. As a guy who is very new to RC it was comforting to see it fly well...and even with an ailing motor it performed like I thought it should. I haven't pulled the video off my camera but I'll get it tonight and post it.

    Back to the subject though...I've heard good things about the AVROTO motors...not sure how they fit with the stock XA mounts though.
     
  6. jhardway

    jhardway New Member

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    Ya - I had some issues I was seeing with my x650v8 but after getting to a point where I did not trust the craft I decided to take a bigger plunge, I went out and purchased a wookong-m. At that time I had to up grade the esc, however even after that, although it flew fine with no payload once I started getting it up to 2200g I did not like what I was seeing. I had a few crashes probably my fault more then the crafts, however some craft faults, and so on. At that time I decided for my purposes I want to make sure i was at the best position I could be at. I then purchased 4 new motors (avroto 2814 - fit right on the current xaircraft motor mounts), I had to add a one very small washer to add space over factory set screws - for better alignment) and ESC's that could handle the new motors demands (Maytech Harrier 30amp).

    So far I am still in the testing stages however what I am seeing has me much happier with my decisions, there is a difference.

    I like Jeff he will not steer you wrong, he's where I bought all my stuff from to start, thumbs up to him

    Jack
     
  7. Kilby

    Kilby New Member

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    Hey Jack... so when you made the conversion to the WK-M did you go with 4 motors, or keep it at 8? It seems most people are doing 4, but i'm dying to find someone that has keep it coaxial.

    I think I'm going to take the same steps you did this week. Any tips or 'gotcha' moments you encountered that I might avoid?


    -Terry
     
  8. jffry7

    jffry7 aka TruckBasher

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    @Ryan, That seems to be a good motor but I think it will not fit my needs as I want to use 11x5 blades my v8. I also found another motor the other day the T700 2216 or 2212. Maybe prefer the later so I can still use the 12A AKE ESC I got from Jeff. Like Jack I have the DJI combo with v650 v8. I have no issues flying with the default motor but video shows vibration specially with Sony HX9V. With GoPro it maybe a bit forgiving but still the image is not that sharp. At this point I only think its either the 11x5 prop that I drilled 9mm hole, maybe off center and the mount.

    Anyway, hope you get good results with your test.
     
  9. IrisAerial

    IrisAerial The Village Idiot

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    the avrotos motors are MUCH bigger than the stock Xa motors. Avrotos are 30amp motors, Xa are 10 amp motors. no comparison. but after having broken props and a frozen motor, I would put anything in there i could find. Seems like you would do fine with some equivalent. turnigy's and some graupner 11x5's. Just a guess.
     
  10. v22chap

    v22chap New Member

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    Interesting thread as I am reading and reading more about the 650 V8 that I am considering ... keep the information coming as I am not buying one soon

    Thanks
    Larry
     
  11. Dixter

    Dixter Member

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    I have put together a 650v8 with the avroto motors and maytech esc's The motors fit perfectly on the stock mounts, you just have to use the motor cross mount and you can do single for quad or set them up as coax for a octo. They are very powerful on that frame. I also use 2 4s 5000 battery's on each side of the frame. You can get the full up bare frame for $200 and to fit 2 motors/esc per arm is about $150 per arm. I plan on switching to the neza controller when it comes out in the next few weeks. You just need to watch what size of props you put on the bottom motors because of the way the landing gear curves out and it's going to flex with the extra weight during hard landings and you will lose a couple props. For mounting the batterys on the side... If you look at the landing gear straight on there are grooves in the landing gear up close to the frame... I just took some carbon rod and inserted it in the slots running the rod from the front to the back, then put tie raps to hold them in place. Then use the battery straps to mount them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2011
  12. jhardway

    jhardway New Member

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    Terry

    ya, I went from 8 to 4, I mainly made that decision from conversations I have had from people around the net. As a few said, it usually is not the motors or esc's that fail, its usually a bad soldering or something else.

    I also read somewhere that some guy had used something like 40 of these motors and all had over 100 hours with no problems in any of them. I have to say the motors are something to see they are well build and they have the ability to throw out 4800g between the 4 of them. I am at 2200g and I like knowing that I am around 50% of its weight. I thought about going up to eight motors, however that many may not let the craft come down.

    The change over was pretty straight forward, if you spend the time with it, you can get the motor wire to align strait up the arm oppose of going to the end of the boom and curving over and under the motor mount.

    The only gotta which is really not a problem was trying to figure out where the ESC's could fit. They are to big to go in the arm so I put them into the side of the frame, two in the bottom layer (one left side, the other right). Then I put a set on the upper layer in the same fashion.

    hope that helps View attachment 2475 View attachment 2476 View attachment 2477

    Here are a few of my first photo flight images, nothing special but it works like it suppose to.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2011
  13. RyanArch

    RyanArch New Member

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    Dixter...I'd like to see a photo of your setup if you have the time. I can picture it but it'd be good to see. I'm specifically curious to see your battery mount solution. Any flight issues with the added weight from the extra battery?

    Ryan
     
  14. Dixter

    Dixter Member

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    Ryan... I had intended to put together another craft today and got busy with another project... so I'll take some pic's tomorrow for you... I'm also taking mine apart to make a couple changes... I plan on pinning the booms... so they won't move ... I'll explain in the next post with pics...

    Later..

    to answer your question about the extra weight from the large/extra batteries.... The motors are very powerful... I think I could go to 6s batteries and it would still be like a rocket.... I think I'm going to have to put smaller props on it to calm it down a bit...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2011
  15. Droider

    Droider New Member

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  16. Kilby

    Kilby New Member

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    What kind of flight times are you getting with that set up?
     
  17. jhardway

    jhardway New Member

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    Flight time on my qaud with the Avroto motors.

    11.1 lipo Battery time and threshold test.

    Battery: Thunderpower 3s – 5000mha – 400g

    Copter: wk-m, Xaircraft frame, Avroto 2814 motors,
    MayTech 30amp ESCs, sony hx9v camera

    total weight just under 2300g



    So basically I was having a hard time figuring out the threshold and flight time parameters. I was not sure where to set my voltage thresholds and I was not sure if what I was seeing out of the wk-m were right. So I lowered my first threshold level from 10.8 down to 10.6, while leaving my bottom threshold at 10.3. I started up my copter flew the craft in my garage, until it would not fly.

    The first voltage threshold kicked in at 8min 15sec, it flew for for another 1min 10sec before the secondary threshold kicked in and landed the craft. For kicks I continued to lift the copter off the floor to see how long and what I could expect when I would experienced if you let the bird fly to the end of the battery.

    Well the end came for the flight at roughly 10min 30sec. At that time the front right motor of the craft dropped and as It started doing so I then dropped the throttle to accommodate the action and allowed the copter land safely.

    It was actually a surprise to me, when I looked at my smart charger’s numbers, to see it threw 4997mAh into a 5000mAh battery, I guess there really was not much in the tank.

    In my conclusions, I was very happy with the result, I now know about where I am for flight time, I also am comfortable with my threshold parameters feeling that a 9 minute flight is probably where I should have my copter on the ground. That is not bad.

    Going forward I am thinking of moving the battery up to a Thunderpower 6600 mAh. If my calculation are in the ball park, my weight for the craft will go up to 2400g which leaves me right at 50% of motors thrust capacity. I also believe it could move my flight time up to 11.5 – 12 min which will make for great flight time.

    My last option which I may do is to push my prop up from the 11in to 12 to offset the weight difference and help the motors run a little more efficient.

    When I do so I will probably do the same test and post my results.

    fly safe all !!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2011
  18. Kilby

    Kilby New Member

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    Hey Dixter, I think you have something funky going on with your attachments. It throws me an error message when I try to look at them. If I'm not mistaken, I saw the same problem on another post of yours. I'd love to see these images as I'm about to do the same thing to my 650. Let me know if you can figure out what's going on, or maybe you could email me the pics? :nevreness:
     
  19. RyanArch

    RyanArch New Member

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    Same here Dixter...invalid attachments. I may not be the only one...but I really appreciate reading about everyone's different setup. I guess that speaks to the flexibility of the craft and gives me hope and confidence for future upgrades. I'm looking forward to testing the 8 motor setup with Graupner 11x5's.

    Jhardway...Off topic I know...but I'm looking into the HX9V as well (I ordered and cancelled once already to free up some funds for my build) but I'm also looking at the Canon G12 (I think it might be too big for the mount...will have to bring the mount into BestBuy next time I go lurking about over there). Are you pleased with the performance...shooting stills or primarily video? I do also have a hankering for the GoPro HD2 now that it's out.
     
  20. Dixter

    Dixter Member

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    IMG_5286.jpg IMG_5290.jpg IMG_5284.jpg
    Lets see if this is any better...
    OK.. these three pictures show the motors mounted on the Xaircraft motor mounts at the end of the boom.
    The X motor mount comes with the motors in the box... all that is needed are the four long screws and the
    nylon nuts... The X mount fits very very snug, there is no slop or play. Also notice that in this configuration
    the wires now do not have to go to the outside of the boom and brought back in... you just slip them into the
    boom under the shrouds...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2011

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